Episode 016 – Speaking in Tongues

12 June 2021

Find this episode on your usual podcast player,  on YouTube, or listen here.

This transcript has been edited for clarity.

 

B: Well here we are again T, how are you?

T: I’m good mate, how are you? Have you had a good week?

B: I have had a good week, it’s been crazy busy, lots happening, but it’s ok. It’s nice to have a bit of down time and catch up and have a chat.

T: Yep, it is indeed. And to remember when we were teenage fundamentalists, and even beyond a little bit. 

B: Mmmm, absolutely. So this is Episode 16 isn’t it.

T: Episode 16, yep. I was thinking that maybe we should let our audience know that we are planning to stop for a little while.

B: We think 20 is a good number for season 1, so we will be stopping – we’ll have five more episodes including today.

T: Yep, then we’ll take a bit of a break. God knows I need it, to be honest this is digging up stuff. We’ve seen other people through the Facebook group talking about that it’s been digging up stuff for them as well. I won’t pretend – I need to put it down for a little while and walk away, and then come back with a new energy and maybe even a couple of changes to the way we do things.

B: Yeah that’s right, it’s been a good learning – this just started out as let’s have a chat, and it has grown a bit. Lots of people involved – as you said before, on our socials, on Facebook and Twitter, there’s quite a few more people coming in to join the group. We’re getting those private messages of people wanting to have a bit more of a chat, but also a lot of conversation going on in the Facebook group, but also on Twitter. So get on board both, retweet us, be part of the conversation in the Facebook page, and as we said before there are no boundaries, but we ask for people to play nice.

T: Exactly, be kind to one another. I think it’s really important to note some people in the group are atheists, some are agnostic, some are whatever religion, some are Christian, I think the thing we all really have in common is we’re all a bit allergic to fundamentalism, but other than that you be where you want to be people, there’s no judgements from us.

B: Yeah, it’s all about the conversation. We’ve come across another podcast this week called Ideas Digest by this guy Conrad, and that’s been really good too, so get on board that one people, because it’s really interesting and again, it’s about the conversation. You can find it by googling, Spotifying it, Apple podcast – wherever you want to go, you’ll find it.

T: Yeah exactly right, I’ve been enjoying his stuff too. Hey, the other thing we did – hopefully people aren’t going to facepalm, but we’ve actually got some merchandise, because that’s what podcasters do. No, but the reason we’ve done this is because we actually have to pay money to host and run the podcast, and also we’ve been doing some promotion through some of the social media, we’ve been doing some paid promotion trying to drum up an audience, so we thought this a nice way to recoup some of that money. So we’ve got some t-shirts and cups, and all kinds of things on there. https://www.redbubble.com/shop/ap/79379858?fbclid=IwAR1ZjArlmiz4MEyLhex8OD9sn56BZqO3YmjRWYnQu7cbUkoYaSQz785fd3k

We get 20% of whatever you spend, that money will come to us and then we will retire to a Thai island when the world opens up again – no we’re not, because we’re not going to make that much money, and we don’t need your money I promise, not personally, but we’re going to use that money to pay for the advertising, pay for the storage and the subscription to Podbean and all that kind of stuff.

B: Yeah, it’s winter here in Australia. I am going to get myself a hoodie I reckon, and a mug. I love a mug.

T: Yeah? You’re going to do that are you? A hoodie.

B: I love a hoodie.

T: Are you going to get the zip hoodie or the non-zip hoodie?

B: Look, I prefer a zip hoodie if I’m honest, and this time of year a little bit of fleecy lining is always comforting.

T: Yeah well, enjoy, enjoy. The way that RedBubble works is you upload the art, they make it, they ship it to you and if you’re not happy with it you send it back to them. It’s really got nothing to do with us. We kind of get a licensing or royalty fee on the image, so that’s how we’ll spend it, we promise, and if we end up becoming millionaires out of this we promise we’ll tell you that we’re not going to spend it on that anymore.

B: And we won’t be tithing any of it, just as a heads up.

T: Yeah well the fact that we get 20% of whatever you spend is a double tithe brother, pressed down, shaken together, running out all over.

B: See, I believe that this is prosperity coming our way. We’ve believed. 

T: That’s right. We’ve blabbed it, now we’re gonna grab it. So, today’s episode – people are probably bored already – today’s episode is speaking in tongues.

B: Speaking in tongues. This is something that I think you will definitely have a fair bit to say about it, given your involvement with a group that mandated that you speak in it to have your salvation.

T: Yeah that’s what made the Revival Centres the Revival Centres. They have that one two three salvation message, which is repent, be baptised, receive the Holy Spirit with bible evidence of speaking in tongues, and if you didn’t speak in tongues, then you weren’t a Christian. So that meant, from the book of Acts, right through til modern day, anybody that claimed to be a Christian that couldn’t sharndababa is out. They’re not in. They weren’t Christians. Then the Revival Centre took it a step further and said well if you’re not preaching this, which is the true gospel, which is most Christians throughout history, well it doesn’t matter if you’re speaking in tongues, you’re out as well.

B: Oh interesting. I’m interested in your first experience in speaking in tongues. 

T: I sort of talked about that in my conversion story which I think was Episode 2, but I think the thing to note about it was I was definitely coached. It wasn’t like someone laid hands on me and said receive the Holy Spirit, and then I did and spoke in tongues. No, I was told to say Hallelujah over and over, very fast, so I’m sitting there in a room with a pastor going Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah like this, until my tongue magically changed, as they said, but it didn’t come spontaneously, not at all. It was something that was taught to me, this is what it sounds like, this is what it looks like. The thing about Revival Centre tongues, they’re different to AOG tongues. Just the sound.

B: Oh.

T: Yeah, the Revival Centre tongues were very machine-gun-esque. Sort of ta-ta-ta-ta-ta – you didn’t feel like you were actually speaking in a language. You just felt like you were machine gunning this sound. I’m not going to pretend to do it, but that’s what it was like, it was very different. But when I came into the AOG, it sounded much more like a language. People were much more – what’s the word I’m looking for? People had a much higher tongues palate, perhaps. They would actually try to make it sound like other languages. I don’t know if you can remember B, but at Great Big AOG, the church we used to go to, there was a guy we used to call Seat Buckler.

B: Yes, I remember Seat Buckler. Why did we call him Seat Buckler?

T: Well we called him Seat Buckler because every – well not every service, but often in a service there would be times when people would speak out in tongues, seeking an interpretation, and he would shout out in his tongue, and it sounded like he was saying the word seat buckler over and over. Like, seat buckler buckler buckler, seat, seat buckler…I remember the first time somebody came to me afterwards and said did you hear Seat Buckler? And I was like, what? Then he became Seat Buckler, and every time he would speak out in tongues pretty much the whole youth section of the crowd would start to giggle, because there goes Seat Buckler again. Remember?

B: I think it was a subversive road safety campaign happening right there.

T: Yeah, yeah. And there was a woman in the Revival Centre, we used to call her aki-aki-aki because that’s what she used to do. Now, I don’t know if this is a language of one word, but she would give the aki-aki-aki.

B: Whereas most AOG ones I remember sounded Swahili or something.

T: You think so?

B: Yeah, well I personally don’t speak Swahili, but it sounded more like some sort of African tongue.

T: Do you remember there was a mutual friend of ours who we swore used to say the name of a South American or Central American country?

B: I do. I remember it very well. The country was Guatemala, over and over. Guatemala Guatemala Guatemala – one thing I do remember well is your little slip up with that one. Do you want to talk about it?

T: Oh yeah, so we were sitting around a campfire, I think it was. We‘d had a BBQ at your place and we used to often mock this guy with his Guatemalas – because we were loving Christians. Never to his face, only behind his back, right.

B: Yeah, yeah.

T: And one day we were talking about speaking in tongues and sharing stories in the group of us about the different tongues, and we were talking about aki-aki-aki and Seat Buckler, then I turned around and said what about Guatemala Guatemala. And then said the guy’s name, looked over and realised that his actual brother was in the group, and I remember looking at him and going oh yeah, you’re his brother.

B: I remember that! You shrunk into your shell – and then came back quickly.

T: But I remember you and another mutual friend of ours were just happy as pigs in shit to see me absolutely shrinking away.

B: I love watching people screw up like that. I hate doing it myself, but when other people do it, fuck it’s funny.

T: We like watching people fall down. Charlie Chaplin made a career out of it.

B: Well you know, it’s tall poppy syndrome too, in Australia. 

T: Yeah, for sure. So when I came into the AOG after being in the Revival Centre with my machine gun tongues, my tongue changed. I feel the reason why it changed is because when I was in the Revival Centre, this is what speaking in tongues sounded like. And this is what tongues was like. Then when I came into the AOG it was like a peer pressure, I guess. And the peer pressure was no, tongues don’t sound like that, tongues is much slower, tongues is more sounding like a language, and my tongue actually changed.

B: The cultural influence of the tongue.

T: I remember at the time one of the street team leaders said to me did your tongue change when you came into Great Big AOG, and I said funny enough, it did. And he said yeah that’s interesting isn’t it, and he was sort of implying that it was because Revival Centre tongues was not real tongues, whereas the AOG tongues was. So within Pentecostalism it’s not just about speaking in tongues. You’ve gotta have the real tongues.

B: Well, talking about the street team, do you remember quite often at the street team there would be the local Potters House which would be out and about, and the Hare Krishnas were quite often around the same area and would be inviting people in (for very delicious meals, I’ve got to say). I remember the Potters House chasing the Hare Krishnas by yelling at them in tongues.

T: Yeah that’s right. I do remember that. It was like a chanting tongue, a warfare kind of thing. So the Hare Krishnas would come out with their drums, and Hare Hare Hare and the Potters House would machine gun tongue them.

B: I remember the street leader of the Great Big AOG going up and comforting the Hare Krishnas on one occasion in particular, going that was really shit of old Potty House, as we used to call them, and basically going and empathising with them – and I’m sure preaching to them as well, but he showed certainly some empathy towards the fact that it probably wasn’t the best use of tongues. 

T: No, no. So let me ask you then – what is the best use of tongues?

B: Well, we can’t say that. This is rated G. (13:00)

T: It’s actually not, I’ve ticked the explicit box, but let’s not go there. Did you ever hear stories of people reporting that people had spoken in tongues then non believers had actually been there and heard their own native language.

B: Yes.  I had heard many stories of that. Not one of them verified, but I certainly heard many stories of that.

T: I can remember there was a Students for Christ published magazine where someone said that someone had reported that this girl had heard an Asian language and she was claiming that it was real, that she knew it, but what’s interesting is I’ve looked at some of the stories around that later on, and I’ll come back to my journey away from tongues later, but people were saying that they were hearing other languages like Thai or Swahili or whatever, but when a little bit of digging was done, the people that were claiming to hear these languages didn’t actually speak those languages. Like you were saying, it sounded like a language to them. And all of a sudden a mythos around that grows, and the next thing you know someone was in the audience and they were from there and they were hearing – it grows like that.

B: I remember it was quite often espoused that if you prayed in tongues it was sort of next level praying, because you were praying in the spirit, and you were praying essentially from the subconscious or the Christ within you or the inner spirit, and it was things that transcended even your own understanding. I remember the church I’ve spoken about when I was there when I was about 18 or 19, there was a minister there – he was on the payroll so he was fulltime, and if you were there for something quite often you could hear him spouting off in tongues, very loud. It would be far away then it would get closer and closer as he was marching around the building, and he would quite often come up in your face and start speaking in tongues to you, as if he was just speaking a normal language, then he would just walk off. It was one of the weirdest things but I remember at the time going oh maybe this is just what they do. I was relatively new to the journey, I’d only really just gotten serious about it and I didn’t do it myself, but I thought maybe that’s what the big and powerful people do with this gift of tongues.

T: Well that’s what we saw Rodney Howard Browne and Kenneth Copeland do – or we heard it, that they were speaking to each other in tongues. But how did you come into the tongues experience? How did you get it?

B: I had a fast track. I remember from my conversion story that I was on holidays in another state in Australia, I was away from my family and with my brothers, so everything was a bit of a package deal for salvation. So I got saved at the church on Sunday, the next Sunday I was baptised and within that day I was told it’s time for tongues. I was like, what the hell. I remember actually one of the things that was a bit of a convincing thing for me, surprisingly, was when I was questioning my brothers and going what is it, because they were referring to tongues and saying we get these gifts. I asked them to speak in tongues, and reluctantly – it was several days of me pestering them – they spoke in tongues and it sounded like a language. Same thing. I thought wow, this is pretty cool. So I was just told – it wasn’t Hallelujah Hallelujah Hallelujah, it was just copy this person who is speaking in tongues, who was a friend of my brother’s, and they said eventually it will come. Just keep it up. And I did, for maybe 15 minutes, and all of a sudden I was doing the same thing. Now I must say, I grew up doing lots of impersonations and different voices, so I didn’t find it hard to do that, to copy and create a language, I guess.

T: So there was still a coaching, a being lead into it.

B: Absolutely, there was no lightning bolt, no here’s your gift, go off and speak in tongues. None of that, it was 100% a coaching, and I actually don’t know anyone I ever met through my journey who did have that experience, where it was a lightning bolt moment. Do you?

T: I do. I’m going to tell you a story, because you know I don’t necessarily believe this stuff anymore, but this really happened and I can’t explain it. So I’m not saying this proves tongues, or doesn’t prove tongues, or proves Christianity or anything, but this really happened. I was working with a lot of street kids at one time – remember you and I were part of this organisation where we would go out and work with kids on the streets. We brought this kid back into Great Big AOG’s youth group. Very few of the kids ever came into the youth group, but a couple of them did, and became a part of it. One day I was praying for this kid. It was before a street team meeting, and I was praying with him, he had his head down and his eyes closed and I laid my hands on him and said to him have you received the Holy Spirit – or whatever I said. He said no, so I started to pray for him. I had my eyes open, he had his eyes closed, and as I was looking at him – you’re going to think I’m a freak here, but this is the way I remember the story – there was like an orb of steam or an orb of water floating over his head about the size of an egg, very transparent, almost imperceptible, but there it was. It actually shot down into him and as it did, his body shook and then he spoke out in tongues. I kid you not, that happened.

B: I’m certainly not questioning you. I’ve seen many things in my life where it’s been unexplainable, and I’m actually quite comfortable sitting in that unexplainable space. I don’t know what this was, I don’t know whether it was Holy Spirit, whether it was tongues, whether it was God, whether it was psychological manipulation – I don’t know. I’ve got no idea.

T: Well the thing about it is I realise I could have imagined it, but the thing that stops me from saying I imagined it was when it sort of shot into him, he actually jerked and then spoken out in tongues. And yet his eyes were closed – this was all happening above him. So, mate. When I was in my angry atheist stage I probably wouldn’t have told that story. But now I’m more comfortable with the grey, and I’ve got to tell you, that really happened.

B: It is bizarre and unexplainable. Are you comfortable with that? Just going I have no idea?

T: Well, no. But what am I going to do with it? The thing about something like that is it doesn’t prove the Christian story, it doesn’t prove anything, but at the same time it sort of opens things up to say what the heck was that. The reason why I say that is just because we read in the bible speaking in tongues, doesn’t mean that what’s happening in churches today and being called speaking in tongues is anything like the New Testament writers thought it was. You’ve got this whole disconnect, you have nothing about speaking in tongues from about the third century up until Azuza Street in the 1900s. Then you’ve got this great big gap, and someone came along and said oh this is what this is – what we’re doing here is speaking in tongues. But how do you know? You’ve got thousands of years between these two events. I don’t know. Do you?

B: Well you’re making it sound like you actually believed something happened back then too.

T: Well I don’t know. I don’t know. All I’m saying is just because the bible says speaking in tongues doesn’t mean that what we call speaking in tongues now is the same thing. That’s what I’m trying to say. Or even if something happened then. They called it speaking in tongues, who knows what they were doing. Were they shundibaba-aki-aki-seat-buckler? I don’t know. 

B: I’m pretty sure Seat Buckler would have been a little bit too early for back then.

T: Yeah I don’t think buckles had been invented. Maybe they were saying shoelace shoelace – no, they hadn’t been invented either. What would they have said?

B: Wheel.

T: Wheel wheel axle axle.

(laughter)

T: In English, of course.

B: Absolutely!

T: I’ll tell you another story that happened to me, although this one is not as spooky. I was invited by a friend of mine to go to a high school and preach. It was a lunch time Christian group, we were invited in. We weren’t really allowed to preach, you had to be very careful because it was a government school, and I was – you remember me – I was just whatever, if God wants to move… so I was laying hands on kids and they started speaking in tongues. In that group. The coaching was going on, there was no orbs and stuff, I was just telling this kid – anyway, suffice to say the girl that was running this Christian group got kicked out of the school. Because I went in there and got them speaking in tongues.

B: When I reflect on times of speaking in tongues, I used to do it a lot. And I used to spend a lot of time in prayer, speaking in tongues. Mainly because I didn’t know what to say, so let’s just go tongues. I would feel a lightness from it, I would feel quite – I wouldn’t say an out of body experience, but very much a peace coming over me, and I look back on it now and think it was a meditative strategy, that’s why. It was more about meditation where it was about being in the now, being present and mindful. It took away all those external stressors so maybe that’s what it was. Not sure.

T: So there’s a podcast called The Liturgists. They do an episode on tongues, and I want to recommend if you’re interested in hearing about tongues from a post Christian perspective, go have a listen to that. One of the things they said was that people that have done MRIs on people that meditate shows there’s a lot of activity in the pre-frontal cortex, the human part of the brain, which is the thinking part of the brain, so when people are doing meditation or prayer in their own [native] (24:44) language, there’s a lot of activity in the pre-frontal cortex. But when they’ve done the same MRI on people speaking on tongues, there’s very low activity in the pre-frontal cortex. So in one sense according to what happens in the brain, speaking in tongues is very different to prayer, and very different to meditation, yet traditional prayer and meditation are very similar.

B: Mmmmh. Interesting. Wonder what’s behind that.

T: Yeah, well I don’t know. But go have a listen to The Liturgists podcast on speaking in tongues, because they go into it in a little bit deeper.

B: Can I suggest you stop bringing things to the table that we just have to go I don’t know? I mean, you’re making us sit in the unknown, T.

T: Yeah that’s it isn’t it. It sort of brings up this point, right. It was easy to be a fundamentalist Christian and have the answers, and it was easy to be, or easier to be a fundamentalist atheist and have the answers. It was very clear – there is a God, there is tongues, there is this and that, then moving into the angry atheist stage it was there isn’t, there isn’t. It was still a kind of fundamentalism – it was still black and white answers. Whereas now, I feel I’m more like well I dunno, and I’m ok with that. Or I try to be ok with it.

B: So that whole not knowing and being comfortable with that and sitting in that space, is that less or more anxiety invoking than thinking that you have to have the answers from whatever fundamentalist point of view you may be coming from.

T: I think it’s easier to have the answers. It’s easier to think you know, and we do that all the time, don’t we. We adopt frameworks by which we can understand the world, but ultimately the problem with fundamentalism, the problem with black and white thinking is life comes along. And life says nope, here’s some grey, here’s some green! So ultimately I think there is more anxiety in being open to other truths, other possibilities, other ways of seeing things, other interpretations, but it’s easier to take black and white answers and to shut yourself off, and I think that’s why people do it.

B: Similar things used to come up, I remember around the creation vs evolution discussion. I was always really comfortable with evolution, I never took sides on one because I would often bring up things like what about carbon dating, what about this or that? And I remember the response every time was something like well that’s of the Devil. Or that was created by Satan to discredit creationism. That was very much coming from that point of view that we have to have an absolute, we have to have one side of the story that is verified, so I think it’s a similar thing.

T: Well, I think for me it’s funny you should say that, because it’s a good segue way into what happened with me with tongues. I was still a Christian, I was still bible believing, full deity of Christ, resurrection, the whole bit. I was 100% in the game, but I started having my doubts about tongues. So I started to read a lot of conservative Evangelical, dare I say fundamentalist literature against tongues. So I started reading a book called Charismatic Chaos by an author named John MacArthur. John MacArthur, by the way, was the guy that inspired Steve Camp for one of his albums. Very strong conservative Evangelical, fundamentalist, anti-Charismatic. So I started reading that, and it really made me start to question oh maybe there is another side to this whole tongues thing. Then I started going to bible college libraries – not mine because I was at an AOG bible college – but started visiting other libraries and looked at the books and what other people were saying about tongues, and what I thought to be called “the tongues phenomena”, and the tongues phenomena only being a couple of hundred years old right, which is what I was saying before, going right back to the book of Acts doesn’t mean just because we call it tongues it’s the same thing. And that was their argument – well is this really tongues? Then they would start to argue using the bible that tongues seemed to need an interpretation, tongues was often times for non believers to hear the gospel in their own language, and these kinds of things. It really threw a spanner in the works for my tongues belief and experience. I don’t really think I ever had some massive experience myself, I could do it but so? It didn’t rock my world in spite of being a Revival Centre adherent, you know?

B: Yeah I think I was similar. Mine just faded away over time, but I never hung my hat on it, like I’ve gotta have this otherwise my salvation’s at risk. I think moving into more mainstream denominations like the Church or Christ or the Baptist after I left the AOG there certainly wasn’t the emphasis on it like there was in Great Big AOG. I guess we had people within the fold who adhered to the fact that you spoke in tongues and used it as a spiritual method, or gift, but it was never in the middle of services. It wasn’t encouraged, I’m sure it wouldn’t necessarily have been frowned upon, but it just wasn’t seen as a thing.

T: The best one I ever heard, a friend of mine came up to me one day and said do you want to hear me speak in tongues? I said all right, and he said what colour my undies, what colour my undies. What colour my undies, what colour my undies…

(laughter)

T: I thought that was a brilliant one. But the point I was making with that conservative Evangelical stuff is it was just as black and white. So here’s tongues, that’s real, here’s not tongues, it’s not real. And it was still a very solid answer for me, so I either believe it or I don’t, I’m not going to sit with the I don’t know. That wasn’t part of being a fundamentalist.

B: No, definitely not. You had to have the answers, because you had to provide the answers to others who were questioning as well. I think that was part of it.

T: Yeah, that’s right. The other thing is when I was applying for my ministerial credential within the AOG, I had to sign a declaration of faith, and one of the statements in there was that tongues was the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. So in other words, you can’t have the baptism of the Holy Spirit – not salvation, but you can’t have the baptism of the Holy Spirit unless you speak in tongues. And that was a big deal, right. You had to sign that. I think there was a bible college lecturer that you were exposed to who helped me indirectly to say well, looking at these scriptures one could argue – and that’s what I wrote in there because I didn’t believe it myself, but I wanted my AOG credential, I wanted to be a pastor. So I put that in, it was playing a game, it was doing a duck and weave, because really whether it was implicit or not, I wasn’t being true to myself. So when I finally did withdraw my credential, I felt good about that because I didn’t believe it. Even as a Christian. 

B: And that was what I was referring to before, too. Quite often I would have those pointed conversations – so are you saying that my Baptist and Church of Christ friends are not filled with the Holy Spirit because they don’t have the evidence which would be tongues? It was never answered directly, there was a lot of ducking and weaving with that one.

T: Well, our bible college president was very straight down the line with this, and here’s what he said. If you have the baptism of the Holy Spirit, you are not a better Christian than someone who doesn’t; however, you will be a better Christian than yourself if you do. So what he’s basically saying is if you get the baptism of the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, you’ll be a better Christian than if you didn’t have it, but it doesn’t mean that you’re a better Christian than others that don’t. 

B: Yeah, yeah, it’s straight up bullshit. I’m sure it made him feel good about the answer and felt that he wasn’t ostracising others, but he was.

T: I think too as a lot of these churches now – the Australian Christian Churches and Hillsong, they’ve sort of evolved. I don’t think tongues is such a big deal anymore is it. I know at Hillsong you don’t really hear tongues in their services, you might at in their home groups and bible studies, but they don’t really do it in their services. So they’ve sort of moved away from that, at least publicly.

B: Okay. That’s interesting. I wonder if it was a conscious move, or if it’s something that, as they’ve evolved into a different, more radical space in other ways, it’s just faded into the background.

T: Yeah possibly. It’ll be interesting to hear what people have to say about this one in the Facebook group, because I was told – don’t know if it’s true, so please understand I’m saying I was told this – that one of the things Hillsong used to separate themselves from the Australian Christian Churches, AOG, was the tongues initial evidence thing. I don’t know how true that is, but maybe someone can jump in the chat and let us know. 

B: Yeah well certainly there are people in the Facebook group that have had a lot more exposure to Hillsong than we have, so be interested to hear from them, for sure.

T: Yeah, cool. Well mate, I think that’s pretty much our time. 

B: We’re tongued out.

T: There’s been so many euphemisms and innuendos in this one, I gotta say. I mean, my machine gun tongues, I think that was a good one. 

B: Yeah, it was good and you certainly did duck and weave from saying the actual name of the band, but I’m sure many people will know. If you just Google machine gun something band, I’m sure it will come up. All right, thank you people for listening again and putting up with us waffling on. I hope it’s been useful – what we try to do in these is normalise this stuff that we’ve been exposed to. Start a conversation and get people to be comfortable with it, and hope that helps.

T: Yeah, well normalise the completely fucking abnormal is basically what we do. Cos let’s face it, if you hadn’t been through this, you must just look at it and go this is just weird.

B: Well I look at it like that, and I have been through it, so I can only imagine.

T: Fair enough. Hey, next week we’re going to talk about prophecy, the flip side of tongues, right? Tongues, interpretation and prophecy, brother. So we’re going to talk about prophecy, word of knowledge, word of wisdom, word of whatever. All them words.

B: Words. Let’s do that.

T: So next week B, I’ve got a word for you, brother.

B: Oh, I can’t wait. I hope it’s delivered in tongues and then someone has to interpret it for us.

T: It’ll be machine gunned at you. All right, I’ll see you next week.

B: See ya peeps.